Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

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Debbie Hepplewhite
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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by Debbie Hepplewhite » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:43 pm

...whether he has ever taken the time to find out what modern synethic phonics teaching is like before condemning it.
Spot on.

kenm
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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by kenm » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:33 pm

How about, "Which of the schemes for teaching reading by synthetic phonics have you observed in action?", which gives experts the opportunity to tell him how modern methods improve on them (if they do).
"... the innovator has as enemies all those who have done well under the old regime, and only lukewarm allies among those who may do well under the new." Niccolo Macchiavelli, "The Prince", Chapter 6

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by Debbie Hepplewhite » Tue Sep 01, 2015 9:58 pm

That's a great question, Ken.

Frances - do you feel able to ask Michael Rosen that question via Mumsnet - or does anyone else feel able to please?

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by Susan Godsland » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:04 pm

Thanks Frances.

Ok, probably against Mumsnet rules, but here's Rosen's mention of phonics:
Thank you everyone for your messages. I fully understand that people get very agitated about this phonics question. Just to be clear. I am not against the use of phonics in teaching children to read. What I'm against is a 'first, fast and only' approach. Some great advocates of phonics are against the 'only' bit too. They think (and I agree) that it's a great idea to give your children books to look at and read from the day they are born and forever after.
And here's 'TheNewStatesman''s excellent response
"Some great advocates of phonics are against the 'only' bit too. They think (and I agree) that it's a great idea to give your children books to look at and read from the day they are born and forever after.”

Children can't "read from the day they were born." Babies cannot talk, let alone read. What they can do is look at books with the parents and listen to their parents reading to them. All synthetic phonics advocate strongly advise parents do to this.

When synthetic phonics advocates are saying when they say "only," is that WHEN IT COMES TO DECODING STRATEGIES, children should be taught systematic phonics stage by stage, without being muddled by advice to "look at the pictures and guess from the context."

I have surrounded my daughter with rich literature and story books right from when she was a baby, and read (and discuss) many wonderful books to her every day. When it comes to LEARNING TO DECODE, however, I teach her synthetic phonics, step by step, and I do not encourage her to guess at words or to think that memorizing a book and reciting it is the same as decoding.

If you do not understand how reading instruction works, then please leave the subject alone, and allow the experts (and laypeople who understand reading instruction properly) to do the talking.
Hurrah.

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by john walker » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:02 pm

What a terrific response to the question! :grin:
John Walker
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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by JIM CURRAN » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:14 pm

What an absolutely wonderful reply.

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by Debbie Hepplewhite » Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:30 pm

Fantastic response!

Thank goodness for that.

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by FEtutor » Mon Sep 07, 2015 12:48 am

Very good response indeed - who was it? time for someone to cough slightly, own up and take a bow.......
Wish it was me.

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by The New Statesman » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:08 am

(sidles in...) Oh, em, thanks for the compliments! :)

After I read the response I'd written I did wonder if I'd come across as a bit harsh. But the guy was being perfectly maddening. Does he really think that SSP advocates don't share any books with their kids other than "Bug on Jug" and Floppy's Phonics?

Anyway, I'm glad I finally got round to joining here, as I am sure to have questions about reading instruction. I live in Japan and am currently teaching my 4.5 daughter to read. Am not a teacher (well, other than some EFL teaching in the past, before I became an editor) but have been obsessed with orthography and reading instruction ever since university, when I chose "Phonetics" and "Writing systems" for the linguistics part of my Eng. Lit. degree, and (during my studies) stumbled across Why Children Can't Read.

I will continue to fly the SSP flag on Mumsnet whenever the topic of reading comes up!

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by FEtutor » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 am

Welcome, I'll look forward to reading more from you!

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by maizie » Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:19 pm

The New Statesman wrote:I will continue to fly the SSP flag on Mumsnet whenever the topic of reading comes up!
Ha ha! Join the club :smile:
I don't recognise your username. Do you post under a different name on mumsnet?

Anyway, welcome to the RRF message board. There is loads of information on the website and linked sites but if there is anything you can't find or isn't mentioned anywhere just come here and some-one will help :grin:

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by The New Statesman » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:33 am

I am TheNewStatesman on MN--for some reason, the system would not let me do the name with no spaces on this site.

I will definitely be making use of the resources here! Having a good theoretical background is one thing, but I am always looking out for practical tips and advice--good activities, how to motivate and so on. It's tough, especially as a mother teaching my own child. :)

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by john walker » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:34 am

For practical tips, advice and lots more (the English writing system, etc.), why not visit The Literacy Blog: http://literacyblog.blogspot.co.uk/
Best wishes,
John Walker
Sounds-Write
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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by geraldinecarter » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:36 pm

Absolutely spot-on, TheNewStatesman! Many thanks. Michael Rosen is obsessed by phonics - he does see a lot of it in schools and his young son has Ruth Miskin's programme. He's also very learned about language - but his stance is incredibly damaging. I can't understand how anyone whose older children were at school in Hackney during the 80s could be so blind as to pretend all was well in 80s London - the illiteracy rates were horrendous.

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Re: Michael Rosen webchat wednesday 2nd Sept

Post by LGP » Thu Sep 17, 2015 1:28 pm

Hi New Statesman! I'm a mum-turned-tutor of synthetic phonics, and yes - teaching your own child is a different kettle of fish! I think there's quite a few parents on here so you'll see posts from us at times.

I didn't know the theory at all so I did the Sounds-Write training and use those materials and Debbie Hepplewhite's Alphabetic Code Charts for both my own children and tutees. Both have been extremely useful, as has the RRF in answering my many questions!

One activity I do with my 6 year old that you might find helpful, which is based on a Sounds-Write lesson I use, is for my son to choose a sound (maybe one that's just come up in a word) and then get him to remember ANY words he can with that sound in. We then write them up in columns, on a whiteboard or sheet of paper, according to their spellings of that particular sound eg. play, train, cane, brain, great for the /ae/ sound. He can then read them and copy them into columns in his little phonics book (sounding them out as he does).

I keep it short so he doesn't think it's too onerous (it does involve a pencil and paper after all!)

Hope your daughter appreciates your efforts!

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