KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Moderators: Debbie Hepplewhite, maizie, Lesley Drake, Susan Godsland

Post Reply
Lesley Drake
Posts: 704
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:01 am
Location: London

KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by Lesley Drake » Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:09 pm

I have been following this topic on Twitter and thought we should have a thread on here about it.

Part of me feels it is commendable to have a sense of urgency to try and get children who have not reached expected levels in lit and numeracy in Y6, focused help in Y7 to bring them up where they should be. Would that Labour or any other party had the same sense of the importance of all children being strong in these basics.

But there are little things that bugged me, in particular the idea that children without expected levels have a negative effect on other children in the class and drag them down in their progress. A bit like an old person in hospital being described as a bed blocker!

It implies the fault for KS2 failure is the child's fault whereas it should be thought of as the Primary school's. With the exception of a few children with pronounced SEND, all children should be able to achieve expected levels at KS2 SATs.

My worry is a Secondary school would go for an intervention programme like Reading Recovery in Y7, that very few Secondary schools would have staff who know about SSP etc and how to use it to help children across the curriculum. If not given the right sort of intervention and support, nothing will change.

Far better to put more emphasis on children not falling behind at Primary school. The Y1 phonics check is essential, and proposed Y3 phonics resits is a good idea. Get it right first time, don't allow any child to go up to Secondary school having been failed.

What do other RRFers think?

chew8
Posts: 4161
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:26 pm

Re: KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by chew8 » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:30 am

I strongly agree that getting it right first time is by far the best solution and that this is possible for virtually all children.

Jenny C.

kenm
Posts: 1495
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Berkshire

Re: KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by kenm » Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:07 am

Lesley Drake wrote:My worry is a Secondary school would go for an intervention programme like Reading Recovery in Y7, that very few Secondary schools would have staff who know about SSP etc and how to use it to help children across the curriculum. If not given the right sort of intervention and support, nothing will change.

Far better to put more emphasis on children not falling behind at Primary school. The Y1 phonics check is essential, and proposed Y3 phonics resits is a good idea. Get it right first time, don't allow any child to go up to Secondary school having been failed.
If the Education Departments were all fit for purpose, every teacher, Primary and Secondary, would know how to read research papers or, at worst, that Reading Recovery would not help.
"... the innovator has as enemies all those who have done well under the old regime, and only lukewarm allies among those who may do well under the new." Niccolo Macchiavelli, "The Prince", Chapter 6

User avatar
maizie
Administrator
Posts: 3121
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 10:38 pm
Location: N.E England

Re: KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by maizie » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:40 pm

Lesley might know what I think if she saw any of my tweets on the subject yesterday, but, for what it's worth, I think it's a bad idea.

In my. limited maybe, experience, a good Secondary school will be aware of these children before they even reach them and will be prepared to intervene as soon as they start KS3. Intervention is presented very positively as something which will help them to make the most of their secondary education. Resitting seems to detract from this positive approach and to no purpose. If a secondary can improve a child's levels anyway (or whatever now replaces them) with appropriate intervention all a resit will do is confirm that the school; can do it. It won't benefit the child if they were going to get there anyway; it even has the potential to stress them unnecesarily and to reinforce the feeling of failure and inadequacy that they already have (children, not being stupid, tend to arrive in Sec. with a very clear notion of where they stand in the academic pecking order.)

I think it would also have an adverse effect on that 'fresh start' feeling that so many children bring to secondary if they feel that they have to plough through Y6 work again. (Yes, they often do repeat stuff they may have covered in primary but in a rather more subtle way than 'You failed, now you have to do it again')

And what if the Sec does have terrible interventions and the children 'fail' again?

The money it would cost would be far better spent on better training for teachers at all Key Stages in how to properly evaluate and implement effective intervention.

I actually don't see it happening, what ever party is in government. If you disapply the SEN* children as suggested there wouldn't really be that many children left to resit.

*SEN being in a great many cases (not all) a label for children with poor literacy skills...

JIM CURRAN
Posts: 3128
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:18 am

Re: KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by JIM CURRAN » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:01 am

I agree with both Lesley and Maizie .One of the big things about going to Secondary school is that it is a new beginning and for children to have to resit a test they failed in the primary school would do more harm than good.When the secondary school has a good reading programme in place and a teacher who knows what's required almost all these children can make amazing progress.

volunteer
Posts: 755
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:46 pm

Re: KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by volunteer » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:43 am

I agree too.

My children go to a small primary school in a wealthy area. The intake is in the lowest category of FSM and SEN.

Every year there are children who struggle with reading. They did not take up the match funding despite offers of the "school part" from some parents and the PTA.

Here is one sorry example:

I asked a while back if I could help one child daily to improve their reading and be allowed to do it "my own way" as I was doing a a course and needed this. They kindly allowed me to do this, but after less than one term (and he made huge progress during this time despite concentration issues ... won't quote the stats as might get identified) they stopped it as they said he was missing too much of what was going on in the classroom, and after he had worked so hard with me he was switching off the rest of the day. He was in year 3 at the time. His teacher was the literacy co-ordinator.

(Despite allowing me to do it "my own way" I had had a few difficulties in being allowed to teach him GPCs beyond the ones that he was doing in his phonics group (at the time he was in a phonics group which was mostly populated by year R and year 1 children) and work through the school copies of the RWI story books at an appropriate pace for him.)

The mother asked more than once on different occasions for it to be recommenced but they said no, that they were doing everything they could for him. At the same time they were telling her that he was not progressing and would struggle at secondary school. He is now year 6. His mother tells me he is very unhappy with primary school for many years now - fortunately he is looking forward to the secondary school he is going to very much having had a good taster experience there. She says he has very low self- esteem as he has four siblings all of whom read better than him including year 1 child. He is in maths booster groups too with much younger children. It is humiliating.

She asked again early in Year 6 if I could help him as she wanted his reading to improve before secondary school. The answer was no. She asked if she could take him out of school for period of the day for help with a tutor. The answer was no. She can't afford this kind of thing but she would have done anything to improve his reading. His teacher was the literacy co-ordinator in year 5 and year 6 too.

He is more miserable than ever. He goes to CAMSH about it. He is leaving school this week. She is going to try and teach him at home herself for the remainder of year 6 and hopes at the very least he will be happier and won't have the humiliation of the KS2 tests - at which she says she was recently told he will have no assistance.

Let's hope the secondary school does have a good intervention programme. He's the kind of child who is very interested in a lot of things so once he is reading easily he really will enjoy it.

User avatar
Debbie Hepplewhite
Administrator
Posts: 3653
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: Berkshire
Contact:

Re: KS2 SATs re-sits Pros and Cons

Post by Debbie Hepplewhite » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:47 pm

What a tragic but - 'all too common' - story.

I'm so very sorry - and I have no doubt that I speak for anyone reading your sad message.

What a state of affairs.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests