PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

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maizie
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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by maizie » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:24 pm

Goodenough wrote:One excuse for the high number of children below level 2 that is being suggested over here is the high number of children coming into Primary schools with very little English. The number of students coming into Irish schools with poor or non-existent English certainly grew hugely from the late 1990s from virtually none to some schools in Dublin having a majority of ESL students.
But don't participating countries have a certain amount of control over the schools used for the PISA tests?

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by Derrie Clark » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:07 am

The second thing that jumps out is that Ireland has both the best and worst
Does Ireland still have a selective / Grammar school system?

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by JIM CURRAN » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:30 am

PISA test and Australia - what does it mean?
8th December 2010


In the following and on the ABC's The Drum website I discuss the 2009 PISA test results.

A test for educational assessment

http://www.edstandards.com.au/index.php ... titute=103

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by chew8 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:05 pm

Jim wrote:In the following and on the ABC's The Drum website I discuss the 2009 PISA test results.
I've followed the link and can't see any indication of authorship. Your message above may imply that the author is you, Jim, but presumably this isn't the case?

Jenny C.

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by JIM CURRAN » Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:35 pm

Sorry Jenny, the article was written by Dr. Kevin Donnelly.

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by maizie » Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:45 pm

Are we supposed to approve of this article?

It sounds like a constructivist's whinge to me.

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by g.carter » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:30 pm

Derry

N.Ireland has selective schools. Eire does not have grammar schools.

Martin McGuinness, when he was Ed. Secretary in N.Ireland was talking about abandoning the grammar school system -Jim would know what the state of affairs is now -

Whatever system it's the bottom 20%+ who are affected by whole language/malinstruction.
Look at Oxford - bottom authority in the country!

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by yvonne meyer » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:17 pm

Kevin Donnelly is not a 'constructivist' and is highly critical of the constructivist movement in education. He is the author of "Why Our Schools are Failing" (2004), and "Dumbing Down: outcomes-based and politically correct" (2007).

He attacks outcomes-based education as;
"...drowning teachers in hundreds of vague and faddish learning outcomes that are impossible to teach and report on to parents... ranging from critical theory, where Shakespeare is on the same footing as Australian Idol, to postmodernism, feminism, marxism and constructivism - has also been criticised as ideological and misdirected."
I think the point he is making in his piece about PISA is that there are some huge problems in the methodology and the way the results are reported, and that we have to shift through the information and pick out what is useful.

This is something I agree with. For example, Finland is reported as being on top of the ladder in reading but it is rarely mentioned that reading & writing in Finnish is much, much easier to teach and learn then English.

It's going to be interesting to see how The Blob will spin Korea's high results since Korea has a system that is strongly teacher-directed and not child-centred. I assume we will soon be hearing the meme that Asians are good at taking tests but are not creative, critical, higher-order, independant thinkers.

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by yvonne meyer » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:29 pm

But don't participating countries have a certain amount of control over the schools used for the PISA tests?
Not my area of expertise but from what I understand, a large number of schools are selected in each country to participate in the PISA test. This initial selection of schools is done so that all types of students are represented. Then the selected individual schools and individual students are given the choice to particpate or not. There is a whole bunch of stuff I don't really understand about the percentage of schools in different countries refusing to participate and/or students within a particular school refuses to particpate so that sample sizes are different from country to country.

I assume that schools & students who refuse to particpate would be those who feel they are more likely to perform poorly although I don't know for certain.

I understand that the differences in sample sizes between countries means that comparisions between countries are not necessarily accurate.

PISA uses the 'Rasch Model' to measure results, something that leaves me totally bewilded.
"OECD/PISA does not measure the extent to which 15-year-old students are fluent readers or how competent they are at word recognition tasks or spelling". Instead, they should be able to "construct, extend and reflect on the meaning of what they have read across a wide range of continuous and non-continuous texts"
It seems to me that if studnets are being tested on how well they can "construct, extend and reflect" on the meaning of what they are reading then someone has to interpret their responses and I don't know how someone can interpret that one student has a higher level of 'reflecting' than another student. :???:

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by JIM CURRAN » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:27 am

There has been an ongoing battle to abolish Grammar schools in Northern Ireland since 2002. This battle continues to rage and at present there is no end in sight. Northern Ireland has the biggest tail end of underachievement in the UK. I believe that selection at eleven years of age is responsible for a considerable portion of this underachievement.

The Japanese boast that they have one of the best education systems in the world, not because they have the best top students but because they have the best bottom 50% . That’s how it should be. As Ruth Miskin has said, a good school is one that teaches all its children to read. In the same way a good educational system is one that educates all its students to their full potential. Anything less is a betrayal of our young people.

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by Susan Godsland » Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:24 am

Diane McGuinness points out that the critical pages in the Pisa document are the pages on compliance rates. In the past, the U.S., UK, etc. had compliance rates of around 50%, whereas the requirement was 85%. In her book 'Early Reading Instruction', the Pisa report is analyzed in Appendix 1, "How Nations Cheat."

Can anyone find the compliance rates in this edition of PISA?

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by JIM CURRAN » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:35 am

Western Nations React to Poor Education Results
By D.D. GUTTENPLAN
Published: December 8, 2010



A respected international survey that found teenagers in Shanghai to be the best-educated in the world has prompted officials elsewhere across the globe to question their own educational systems, and even led the British education minister to promise an overhaul in student testing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/09/world ... ation.html

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by JIM CURRAN » Sun Dec 12, 2010 3:12 pm

UK brought to book over our teenagers' lack of literacy skillsStandards are falling in this country. We're now below Japan, the US, France and Germany


Share Comments (164)
Jessica Shepherd The Observer, Sunday 12 December 2010 Article history

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... NTCMP=SRCH

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by yvonne meyer » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:26 pm

I thought it might be interesting to compare how other countries have reported their PISA results.

USA
Top Test Scores From Shanghai Stun Educators
SAM DILLON, New York Times, December 7, 2010

With China’s debut in international standardized testing, students in Shanghai have surprised experts by outscoring their counterparts in dozens of other countries, in reading as well as in math and science, according to the results of a respected exam.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/educa ... ation.html

Singapore
S'pore students excel
Vanessa Jalleh, The Straits Times

SINGAPORE students have performed well under an international students assessment conducted by the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).
A total of 65 countries took part in the Programme for International Student Assessment (Pisa) 2009.
Singapore students ranked as follows: *Second in Mathematics, *Fourth in Science, *Fifth in Reading
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNew ... 11295.html

Japan
OECD test results: Students that read newspapers have better reading comprehension
Mainichi Daily News Japan, December 8, 2010

Analysis of the results of an international test measuring the scholastic ability of students has shown that across the world, the more students read newspapers, the higher their reading comprehension scores on the test, while comic reading seemed to have no effect.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnnews/news/201 ... 7000c.html

Germany
Schools make slight PISA improvement
The Local, 7 Dec 10

Germany's school standards have improved slightly after a dismal performance a decade ago but are still mediocre when compared with other developed countries, the latest PISA international tests showed Tuesday.
http://www.thelocal.de/national/20101207-31639.html

New Zealand
NZ students among best in world, survey shows
Elizabeth Binning, New Zealand Herald, Thursday Dec 9, 2010

An international survey has found New Zealand's top students are among the best in the world - but more needs to be done to lift achievement for the rest of our children.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/new ... d=10692996

Finland
Finland tops PISA in reading and mathematics as well
Helsingin Sanomat International Edition

Finnish 15-year-olds have kept their high position in the OECD
Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) in reading and mathematics. According to information on the latest PISA survey leaked to the German media, Finnish schoolchildren came out on top in mathematics, and second in reading, right after South Korea.
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Finlan ... 5232308295

Korea
Korean Education: Excellent Overall, but No Bright Sparks
The Chosunilbo, December 11, 2010

Korean students are overall excellent achievers in academic skills, but the cream of the crop lagged far behind that of other countries, according to the 2009 Programme for International Student Assessment announced by the OECD on Tuesday. Korean students in the upper 5 percent ranked ninth out of 65 participating nations including 31 non-OECD member countries in reading, fifth in math and 13th in science.
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/htm ... 01073.html

Shanghai
'Smartest' label fails to impress
Shanghai Daily 2010-12-11

CHINESE parents and education experts have shrugged off a report by an international organization saying Shanghai students are the smartest in the world.
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/?i ... e=National

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Re: PISA results 2009- UK falling further behind

Post by Susan Godsland » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:56 am

Cherry-picked Scottish and Welsh education 'experts' give excuses for poor showing in PISA results:

http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6066233
According to Jim Conroy, former education dean at Glasgow University, one of the most significant findings of the Pisa survey is that young people who are taught to read for meaning do best.

"That shows that synthetic phonics is not the answer because that method teaches people words, not meaning," he said.

He echoed Ms Ellis's comments on the need to increase young people's engagement with reading for pleasure.

"When you read for pleasure, you read for meaning," he said.

But David Turner, a literacy expert at Glamorgan University, suggested that Wales may have performed poorly compared to its UK neighbours in the international survey because of its focus on particular literacy skills which may count against the Welsh focus on bilingualism.

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